113689-is-this-game-worth-investing-a-ton-of-my-time-into
Content ---- ---- ---- Thank you forum police...I have restructured my question.... | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Going off the assumption that you enjoyed WoW's 10 years of developed content. Wildstar does not have as much yet by comparison. This game is more comparable to vanilla WoW in current development state. It's a game that is getting better and better every month. If you aren't impressed by it now you might be in a month or two. The content can be very harsh in difficulty. If you like that kind of end-game content then you'll enjoy this game. If not then you may be exhausted by it. | |} ---- The only thing Wildstar have over wow is the combat system as in double jump, sprint, dash and telegraphs, Costume and housing. In every other way it fails miserably, yeah it's a new game, a 2014 game with so many GIGANTIC flaws that its life won't be long. To the OP, when WoD hits, Wildstar will start it's move to F2P, i wish this wasn't the case but the devs have shown us how lost and completely desperate they are, imo stick to WoW, it will still outlast most mmos till Devs can think outside of oldschool grindhouse boredom. | |} ---- This game rewards having a lot of time put into it. Part of some peoples' complaints is that it takes too much. I'm not really in that camp (since I waste so much time in housing and the bureaucratic guild stuff), but it's a criticism lobbed at the game fairly frequently. If you've got time to burn, it's a lot of fun, especially with a good guild. The content can be extremely challenging, but more than that Wildstar's entertainment tends to scale up with numbers. IT multiplies the chaos, and that chaos is really what keeps the game fun long after the boring numbers grind of most MMORPGs wears on you. The difficulty is really where it's at. Hell, Enigma still hasn't cleared Datascape, and they're the creme de la creme of Wildstar raiding. I think only seven guilds have managed to field 40 man teams with the dedication and skill to enter Datascape. They're reducing some of the barriers for entry, but not the content, which is probably a good way forward. However, if you're looking to invest more time, that might not matter. Most complaints are that people don't have time anymore. | |} ---- People haven't cleared Datascape yet cause playerbase is dropping like flies, anyone that raided hardcore enough in wow or other mmos know how bad class balance and itemization is at right now, on top of the the early amp/ability point and 1800 grind to get best weap and gear for raiding people got burnt out. Anyone with x amount of time per week but with a really high skill cap just quit, my guild prob attuned over 90 people ( counting the initial 20 that killed ohmna) to datascape and we lose 5-10 people per week, this game is in a terrible state, bug after bug poor rewards and a very sketchy team of devs are pushing people away, believe me the raid fights are all a joke, anyone that is in between us 100 in wow can come here and melt face, the problem is basically gear gaps due to rune system, bugged bosses and well, the list is too long to be listed. | |} ---- Your definition of gigantic is entirely subjective. | |} ---- Huh? What sense does that make? You only need 40 to clear the raid… the guilds in Datascape field that without a problem. The content is good and hard. Period. | |} ---- Are you living in what world ? Because it certainly isn't the same as me, yeah you only need 40 people to clear content, too bad you need backups in case of RL and better class comp. datascape isn't hard, sorry to burst your bubble, it really isn't, the problem is that most hardcore/skilled players noticed the amount of flaws in the game early on and jumped out of the boat so they didn't sink with the ship after investing so much time. You know Enigma actually had only 30 people on their roster 2 weeks ago after a huge portion of the raid quit ? They actually cannibalized several guilds to finally kill system daemons again in a monday before the reset, now you keep daydreaming thinking skill is the problem with datascape. You are prob the biggest white knight i've seen in these forums and i never bothered to quote you knowing i'd see the same delusional answers, after this game goes F2P i'll keep checking the forums to see if you are still around paying to have bank space and character slots. | |} ---- Don't feed the trolls, Lethality. -.o | |} ---- ---- I've seen too many good folk take a bullet to not tell you... | |} ---- Except that WoW is mindnumingly easy. I will never go back there. On Hazak Datascape, 2nd boss downed server first was a recent achievement. A lot of guilds are anywhere between 2/6GA and 5/6GA. So we most definitely have enough people. And Datascape is hard. Hell even Genetic Archives are hard. But then again you probably haven't seen either of them. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- The only problem with mega-servers is that they weren't ready before launch. Having separate servers in 2014 is quite frankly archaic. | |} ---- ---- ---- Because it wasn't part of their design plan for the past 10 years, but is now due to changing of environment. (its a reaction, not an action) Yes its great and should've been done sooner. Most of the lamenting is why it wasn't done until basically forced to be the case. (so as a phoenix, rising from the ashes) | |} ---- Crazy stupid really really hard :-D | |} ---- Yeah maybe it's amazing for american ppl. But in europe we speak multiple languages, so we have to play with all kind of nationalities. Not everyone understands english, so this could be hard for some ppl. Have a look at our dungeon groups, when you allow cross server: chat is barely used, some people just leave the group without even trying to have a conversation... | |} ---- FF14 mixes Japanese and English players, and it's not a problem over there. They do have a system of "common phrases" that auto-translate to whatever client's language. Maybe WS needs something like that for EU. Maybe there's an addon that does that. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Not to mention, another problem with the mega-server mergings, is it allowed players to get set in ways, then change them all around... like feeling as though there could still be dedicated RP servers in this day and age. When a game starts out with megaservers, the structure is usually great and fine... even FFXIV: ARR doesn't have "dedicated" RP servers, but has both legacy and non-legacy that are the "unspoken" RP server -- which Wildstar might eventually have, but honestly, may as well be starting the game all over again. People got set in what servers, what's available, naming conventions (and reserved names which were a perk of pre-order that will no longer matter for anything), etc. Also doesn't exactly bode well since back when there were mega-queues so many said to do megaservers then, and/or at the very least throw the "new box-rigs" into the clusters to raise populations of pre-existing servers... devs said it wouldn't be a good idea and wouldn't work well, so the general populous got behind them, parroted the same thing... and look at that, now here we are, not even three months later (since the queue issue was "addressed" in the later half of June), and that exact idea is in play, except now, the general populous are saying the exact opposite, "oh yeah, now it's okay to make those clusters bigger, for sure". I can completely understand this too... even on NA servers it's seen that some just get on whatever server they click first -- which in general, is fine and all, but does get kind of interesting when they get frustrated because nobody can understand them and/or they can't understand anybody. :D Yeah, that system is nice... of course, some of the slang can be confusing for some... there was a handful in our FC the other day asking, "what does 'chewing the fat' mean!?", LOL. :lol: Btw, not anything even remotely close to "forum police", more like "common sense". It's about as genius as walking into a 49ers stadium and saying, "so, how about those Patriots, tell me why you think they're good". :blink: #ListPlusOne | |} ---- ---- ---- FFXI was the game to start it (and might be the only one to use auto translate / pre-set cross language terms besides XIV). People forget FFXIV was supposed to be the best of FFXI distilled... but when that is what we got it tanked. Also on topic; FFXIV had almost 20 years of FFXI to draw on; W* is a brand new IP with a game made from a brand new engine that itself was made from scratch. Apples to oranges :) | |} ---- Hadn't forgotten anything here, and was fully aware that the system was first implemented in FFXI (also addressing the other post about it) -- perhaps what some have forgot is that not everybody still plays FFXI as it's more a "hardcore crowd" game. Granted they expanded on it, so it's now possible to solo-play after lvl10 (but for some, myself included, it was one of those "too little, too late" kind of things -- even though I still have a love/soft-spot for the game mind you -- "tough love") with a bunch of working-around, but still kind of clunky... even though it is a fabulous and beautiful game. FFXIV is a tad more relevant and tends to have the bigger percentage of the Final-Fantasy-based-MMO player-base crowd -- which is probably when people talk about "Final Fantasy games having that", they're more likely to refer to FFXIV... when we refer to specifics about WoW in general, it's not like we say WoTLK or BC... we tend to say Mists or WoD. ^_^ | |} ---- Yeah too bad my guild have been working on System Daemons for a month and a half now, you know whats hard about the fight ? Teaching 15 new people every fkn week what to do on it, because the population skill and raid experience in this game is REALLY BAD, the PR move to call this game hardcore blablabla did it's toll on atracting young people that have zero experience on raids or any social skill to actually grind a boss for more then 3 days worth of progression, oh look i didn't get any loot this week, well time to quit, bye everyone. As i said several times in these forums, any white knight that thinks this game is any hard because all mmos they played were basically a macro fest, think again, this game is dumbshit easy if you ever played any action game in your life, the problem is low skilled population with several inbalance in itemization, amp, class and on top of that bugged bosses that can't fkn work for over 3 months now. Do you know that interrupters in system daemons should get a 30% dmg buff but it STILL DOESN'T WORK ? Yeah, raiding here is so hard. Also for the record, i'm beyond bored with wow combat system because there isn't much movement involved into it, the rotation and teamwork was always the focus on that mmo, fights like Heroic Lei Shen were truly hard BEFORE NERFS FOR CASUALS. Now tell me, did you ever kill any top boss before farming the raid for more then 2 months ? Cause most people that bash the shit of wow only get to kill end bosses after they were destroyed by nerfs. I've raided in several top 10 us guilds, if you want to know what truly hardcore is, go roll 5 alts that u play as good as your main to funnel gear in a giant spreadsheet between peoples main characters to progress fast, that's what truly fkn hardcore is, not this timegated joke Wildstar have. | |} ---- Same for me, I heard about Wildstar years ago when I still played WoW (before MoP), I also quit WoW because I was just tired of it, not going back there. The concept of Wildstar intrigued me and so I have been following it ever since. Signed up for beta testing early on and managed to get into it...LOVED IT! Still do. I can't speak for raiding as I haven't raided yet in Wildstar, I just don't have the time required for it at the moment but I do hope I will sometime soon. PVP is fun and that's my personal opinion because I know a lot of people think differently, but to each his own. What I CAN tell you with a (almost) certainty is that if you got bored with WoW 6 months ago and haven't played since, you'll get bored with it very quickly if you go back to it once their new Xpac hits. | |} ---- Anyone can claim the name on their servers once; But what if you had to race to get your name multiple times? Could you still get the name you wanted? Hardcore. P.S. Make name's only last for 3 months, watch the race to reclaim them and the tears of those who miss out, hardcore! | |} ---- Haha, I know right. Nothing quite like, "Hey, I'm awesome, because I got the name DaBestAwesomestSauce reserved"... three months later, "not cool anymore bro, now you need a first name AND last name". :D | |} ---- ---- Highlighted the important parts. 1. Population skill is bad, but the game is not hardcore? 2. Not for the MMO crowd. The only comparable MMO that's even close to this would be Tera. Even Guild Wars 2 dungeons and bosses are mindnumingly easy in comparrison to this. MMO crowd is not the same as single player game crowd. Meaning that for an MMO this is hardcore. 3. My boyfriend's mother even finished all the MoP's raids in WoW with us, and she can't level past level 7 without dying here. So yes, for the record, I know raids in WoW and they're not hard at all. 4. Wildstar is actually less timegated than most MMOs. In Guild Wars 2 you can only try getting gear in Fractals of the mists, once per day, per account. It will take you a moth per best in slot necklace. It will take you at least 4 months to gear up 1 character in pinks and that's if you do EVERYTHING (dailies, fractals of the mists and level 500 crafting that is also timegated). In WoW you can raid around once a week. In Tera dungeons also have daily lockouts. It's an MMO. No MMO is timegate free. | |} ---- | |} ---- | |} ---- correct. low population skill doesn't mean the game is hardcore, it means the good players already left or stayed away in the first place I have never played Tera or GW2, I do play quite a few other MMO's LOTRO, WoW, TSW, SWTOR etc I don't find Wildstar Hardcore, just tedious It is easy to carry people through raids, always has been. doesn't matter if its RIft or WoW or whatever other game you raid in, WoW's heroic raids are no joke, lei shen when current was not faceroll, Garrosh is not faceroll. The main problem wannabe elitists seem to have with WoW is that it caters to players of all skill levels. A solo instanced fight like Kanrethad in WoW is a very challenging fight, challenge modes are challenging if your group isn't doing it for the 100th time, brawlers guild and proving grounds both can be very challenging. but haters choose to focus on how easy the easiest content in WoW is while conveniently forgetting to mention the content that is tough Nothing in WIldstar or any other MMO I have played for that matter can come close to the Kanrethad fight in terms of difficulty for a single player. | |} ---- | |} ---- ---- Not really, if the majority of population can't do something it doesn't necessarily makes it hard, a bad player for interrupts will still be a bad player for interrupts no matter what game he plays, apples and oranges here. Yeah it can require more then other games, but if you compared everything to 5 year old games, this will always look harder, because the model for combat is different, and btw Tera is way more unforgiving then this game, because in here you know where red is, where in Tera you just get cluster*cupcake*ed by a messed up hitbox. Heroic raiding in wow is WAY harder then dungeons or raiding here, the difference is that you are using the dungeon model from wow, which is casualish compared to this game where bosses need more team work then most games, remember early cata for BlackRock Caverns or Stonecore ? yeah they weren't a walk in the park and they got massively nerfed after people couldn't do em, a dungeon difficulty for the mass population doesn't mean it's hard for skilled players, i got server first Challenge Mode golds 1 month after Mop was out, and it only took me that long cause my static group had some issues to meet up outside of raid days, nowadays it's a joke to do CMS, you know why ? Cause you can overgear it with gems/class stack and combos not to mention you can read huge guides about it. Finishing a raid when the content haven't been nerfed means all the difference, anyone can zerg normal mode shit, Heroic is where you can measure difficulty in WoW and i can tell you right now that most players don't kill end bosses or the 2 before them while they have crap ilvl compared to the raid current one. Saying otherwise only shows how you never really raided hardcore in a though environment where you can't really overpower bad play with gear. What game was most loved for it's vanilla ? Wildstar ? surely not, WoW ? It's nostalgia glasses, most retards that talk about how great vanilla was don't remember 90% of the terrible lack of QoL that the game got later on, LFD is literally the best tool ever created, an mmo witouth that mindset will just die. You talk about casuals as if they are bad players or imbecils, i know a shit ton of casuals that were gods in therm of skill and got caught up by life, hardcore and casual are terribly misused words. You talk about the attunement as if it was hard, it's just long and tedious, most fights in GA are a joke compared to a bad rng optional SC or SSM, attunement only made people slow down their chance to enter GA, that's it, whoever really cared about raiding is here right now raiding, but most people are quitting cause the game STILL HAVE MAJOR FLAWS THAT WON'T BE FIXED ANYTIME SOON. Keep daydreaming, i care for the quality of games i play, hence why i never ditched wow to go play other mmos in the past, they had dreadful ideas and bad systems, if you release something so lacking early on with WoW still in the scene, you are shooting yourself in the foot, SWTOR had the chance to absorb an obscene number of players due to the SW hardcore fanbase, and it still failed because that's all they really accounted, F2P means the death of a game to me, the amount of BS involved in F2P is so huge i won't even enter this here. |} | |} ---- ---- Oh, I absolutely loved Tera! Having soloed team bams I honestly don't know which game is harder. In Wildstar it's skill + gearing up the right way, while in Tera anyone can kill bams as long as they're not mid attack when the enemy starts doing his. Both are most definitely harder than Elder Scrolls Online and Guild Wars 2. Easier than vanilla. Burning Crusade and upwards is where dungeons became no longer exausting. Cataclysm is where the raid difficulty was nerfed to the floor. My opinion - both were bad decisions. Thank godness for the ability to get a private server when you want to remember the good days. Nostalgia glasses that you can still revisit by hosting a private server. I'm not using casual in the amount of time had sense, we all have jobs and families, we're not teenage boys sitting in our mother's basements. And yes, with all the flaws, with all the unfinished zones, with all the annoying quests, with all the lack of quests, the most enjoyable part of World of Warcraft for me was vanilla. Lore wise it's Cataclysm that lost me. And I'm so glad, that unlike life simulation genre, the MMO genre is not dominated by one sole entity. That we have choice. That's why I never get why people that obviously love this other game, choose to spend time bashing games on random forums. | |} ---- Listen... Play it for yourself, see it first hand. You decide... That is an opinion question, and everyone has a different one for this game. | |} ---- ---- Yep, TERA was great fun as a Sorcerer. Wreck BAM face, and often other players who think they hot. The movement response could have been better though. It is much better in WildStar. | |} ---- ---- | |} ---- ---- ---- Nobody buys Raidin' gear. We all had well over a hundred boom boxes. I sold two full sets at least in the first two months after release. | |} ---- Then you must have been hacking or stupid lucky because I have well over 150 and I only got the gloves so far. All I seem to get is the same f'n exile blue dye. I have 30+!!! I don't even bother opening them anymore. (OT) I'd hold off on investing significant time. Sadly I think carbine has gone into defensive mode. They're taking way to long to fix problems(If at all) and seem more interested in showing they are in control by refusing to address things immediately. | |} ---- Your definition of "too long" is a symptom of today's smartphone, internet driven fast paced western society. Maybe you need to get a public sector job to see how long things take to happen there, so you can adjust your definition. | |} ---- ---- ---- SO MUCH THIS | |} ---- Not knowing how far back your Wow experience goes if it goes back to Vanilla and/or BC, I would agree with you, when HM raids were brought in, then I would question you. Unless you were doing the hard mode raids before they were nerfed you are not competing the top raid content against the raid content. Are dungeon's in wildstar harder than they are in WOW absolutely, is there reason for people not doing them to a great deal because of the hardness of them, perhaps but reward vs investment/effort comes into it as well. Your boyfriend's mother did all the hardmore raids before the nerfs? I would be impressed . |} Why are you talking about LFR and normal modes, these are the low-mid difficulty raids. | |} ---- ---- While I am still subbed and hoping they fix things. When they attempt to fix things and make things worse because of lack of quality assurance oversight or incompetence (medic gamma rays fix -> discharge bug), how can you point this back at the player base. The reason why players are like this is because most people are from a capitalist economy where people are encouraged to vote with their wallet, there are a lot of other MMOs on the market, the fact that players move because they would expect a game to be better 3 months after it's release compared to when it was released or because they are not having fun is a fair expectation I believe. Carbine severly got the market wrong, the number of people wanting a return to Vanilla wow despite being a large portion of the forum white knights, were not the people to be listening too, the only fun part of that was opening up the gates to AQ. | |} ---- ---- It has nothing to do with having the "wool pulled over our eyes." I haven't played any of WoD but even in MoP the combat and raids are better than WS. And why are you comparing character models between the two games? Blizzard never said it was going to be comparable. Also, WoW uses a 10 year old system, I'm surprised the models look as good as they do. You can't compare updated graphics on a 10 year old game to a brand new game, sounds like you're just disappointed because your expectations were too high. And personally MoP wasn't a fail, it was the most fun I've had in WoW since BC. | |} ---- There effectively isn't any difference. The only hard thing in SWTOR are the fanboys for Vette ;) I was mostly referring to Vanilla / BC era; but my claim on relative difficulty still stands even if we include WoW's HM raids. They were definitely challenging and not anywhere near what I would call easy.... but they just don't measure up to the insanity that was the HNM's in Sea in FFXI, or EQ's roughest content (ugh, just thinking about OMM 10 years ago still makes me weak in the knees...). | |} ---- Thank you. Sheesh, most of this new generation of humans is reaaaaally immature and completely undisciplined. @OP If you like what you see, try it. $60 is really not a lot of money at all. You spend $60 on basic life needs every single DAY pretty much unless you're jobless and eating nothing but ramen noodles. Unless you're in poverty you can probably afford to shell out $60 on fun, even if you end up not liking it in the long run. Personally I love Wildstar. Pretty much all of its features are more engaging and more entertaining than WoW's in every way. Housing is a game all in itself. Combat speaks for itself, makes WoW look like a turn-based game. PvP actually takes skill, not just learning a rotation, but is also accessible to newbies. Low skill floor, very high skill ceiling. Dungeons make WoW's raids look easy. Raids are on another level entirely, I don't think anyone's even beaten Datascape yet (though I could be wrong, I don't follow what the huge Guilds are doing). Solo content and Lore are interesting, witty, funny, and engaging. Questing to level 50 isn't boring at all. World Story and the characters (Dominion/Exile Leaders, The Caretaker, Drusera, The Strain, Torine, etc.) are all more fleshed out and interesting than anything in WoW. The work put into cutscenes, voice acting, emotes, and other things that bring characters to life is on a whole other level to WoW. It makes WoW look like a nintendo64 game. The music. This is the only MMO that I can't bear to turn off the music. I usually listen to EDM or something while I'm playing. Here, I can't. WoW's soundtrack is trash. Wildstar's is epic, on the level of a AAA single-player RPG title or feature film. | |} ---- Although I don't agree with all of your opinions, thought I would give you some more facts and other viewpoints. combat/PVP taking skill is two parts: movement and rotations. You brush half of combat off by saying it's "not just learning a rotation" because rotations are very important in combat. Maybe you don't like that part of combat, but I do and I feel that's where WS's combat is very lacking. Most classes take 2 or 3 button presses to maximize your DPS and frankly it's very dull. Heroic raids in WoW are very difficult, so maybe I can see if you are comparing it to LFR/Normal modes. That said, most guilds still haven't cleared raids because of inherent design flaws and bugs. There are massive bugs, balance issues, ridiculous amount of grinding for attunement, and huge gear gaps because of poor itemization in the current raid content. Those are the main factors why raids haven't been cleared. If you did follow any raiding guilds, most will tell you that the raids aren't that difficult. The rest is opinion and I agree that WS has great lore and a unique story. But saying WS is "more fleshed out" than a game that has been around for 10 years and spawned numerous novels is clearly not possible. I personally like WoW's story and I think MoP cutscenes, acting, and music are top notch. | |} ---- More buttons =/= better combat. It means more button mashing and memorization, not more complexity. Maxing your rotation in WoW is the same as in Wildstar, it's just a bunch more arbitrary button spam, and it completely lacks the dodging/aiming/LoS component. Attunement is fixed, read patch notes. Itemization is no worse than how WoW's used to be, don't know the state of it now but you'd think after four expansions it'd be right, I'd certainly hope so since Blizzard is a massive powerhouse company with almost unlimited resources and Carbine is an upstart. Read my post again, I did not say the lore is more fleshed out. WoW would be the most pathetic RPG ever made if its Lore was not heavily diverse after ten years PLUS the fact that it was based on a pre-existing franchise. WoW fans ALWAYS forget that Warcraft 1, 2, and 3 existed. xD Wildstar started FROM SCRATCH. From a brand new company. An entirely new IP. WoW is a sequel to a sequel to a sequel. Anyway, I said the characters are fleshed out, not the lore. And I never mentioned novels or any outside material. I mean in the game, from the content, and the player's interactions with the characters. WoW characters are mostly bland questgivers. | |} ---- ---- Chua bought Raiding' gear.......Chua not got any from boxes, so bought entire set for 3 platinum. Now Chua use set as lucky-healing-mushroom-set when healing. Chua agree. More buttons and skill not make Combat better. Point of LAS is work with limited sets, making Human think about what should bring along and try different combinations. | |} ---- I never said more buttons = better combat. In fact I love the LAS system that both GW2 and WS use. Skill bloat was a major reason I got tired of playing WoW but also the reason WoD has got my interest again is because of how many abilities are being removed or combined. And I also agreed I love the dodging/aiming/LoS component. We are in total agreement. However, my point was that WS has a boring rotation and you didn't provide any proof to the contrary. Most classes use very few buttons to be effective. Abilities also do not influence each other. WoW has many abilities that proc each other, reduce CDs or increase damage of other abilities, etc. WS has none of this. The only procs we get are for crits or deflects, that's about it. And hardly any of our abilities affect our other abilities. WoW rotations have a priority system that always keeps it interesting, where WS where you just use your 2 main abilities as often as possible, throwing in 1 or 2 support abilities on CD. My point is that people are saying that WS combat is better and I'm saying it's not "better", it's different. They've shifted the challenge from knowing your class and perfecting a rotation to dodging and moving. Attunement has been fixed yes, but the fact that it was such a high bar (mostly the 300 PPP to get into Datascape) that it took guilds more time than necessary to get into raids. And comparing the bad itemization to how bad "Wow's used to be" is bad logic and gives WS a free pass. WS has had years to learn from WoW's mistakes so there's no reason for it to be this bad. You said "I don't think anyone's even beaten Datascape yet" so I was just explaining the why no guild has cleared all the raids yet. If you encountered a ridiculous grind to get into the 40-man raids, couldn't find gear good enough to clear the content, and encountered bugs that made the mobs almost impossible to kill, would you want to keep progressing? I did re-read your post and technically you are correct, you didn't say lore, but you did say world story, and I quote "World Story and the characters (Dominion/Exile Leaders, The Caretaker, Drusera, The Strain, Torine, etc.) are all more fleshed out and interesting than anything in WoW." Again I love the story in WS. I'm just saying the world story is not more fleshed out "than anything in WoW." yes the point of the LAS is exactly that, but I don't think Carbine has SUCCEEDED in doing that. The majority of classes all use the same LAS and AMPs, there is almost no diversity. The only thinking required is if I need to switch out a stun for a CC break, or a debuff for a cleanse. | |} ---- Chua has opinion about that. Is cause Humans only care about min/max in build and not look at broader picture in group content. Chua try to use last night raid as example. Chua experimented with different LAS set up abilities. Not taking cookiecutter healing build and focusing more AoE healing. Other healing Spellslinger in group focused more on LAS with survivability and Heal over Time. 2x same class, 2x completely different LAS Set up. Raid consisted only of 19 people even. Point Chua trying to make is that not always need to focus on min/max. Sometimes just better to look at situation is in and play with given tools according to preference. Nobody in raid care about being #1 on meter. All aim of raid is: Get inside, kill what is standing in front of us and have fun as group. Even if DPS only do 2k dps, or healers only do low HPS, if boss dies at end, everyone happy and did good job. | |} ---- I'm not saying there is ONLY one build, but there are very few. That said, most bosses have either soft or hard enrages and DPS does indeed matter as you will definitely wipe if your DPS is lacking. Also raiding is a little more forgiving because there are so many characters, two of the same class are going to run different specs for raid utility. One esper will be the haunt spec, one medic will take the fissure debuff, etc. Still, taking medic as an example, going from single target to aoe dps requires swapping of only one skill. In dungeons, adventures, solo, the vast vast majority of dps specs will be running the same, and I feel its the same for tanks and healers as well. | |} ---- because there's only like 2 builds per class on build websites... Oh wait. And the exact same situation is in warcraft. There are so called meta builds that everyone copies, making sure that pretty much anyone that you meet will be running a similar rotation and similar skill points. | |} ---- Actually since WoW got rid of talent trees and put in the new system it has relieved a lot of cookiecutter builds and allows you to play how you want instead of whats the most dps. And saying a brand new game uses the same system as a 10 year old game doesn't help your argument. And at least every class in WoW has 3 specs, which is 1 more than most builds in WS. | |} ---- Specs =/= roles. Each W* class has 2 roles, and at least two specs per (most have more than 2 specs per role) | |} ---- Changing 1 ability on your LAS =/= a new spec | |} ---- Changing three is. There are plenty of times I've completely shifted half my bar to handle different kinds of mobs because I wasn't getting great damage out of my build. | |} ---- Look at it this way: I did a world boss event in Wilderrun not long ago and there were THREE other engineers in our party. They all had ONE thing in common, ONE. They used Electrocute. Their rotations were all different though. One used energy auger a lot, one used dodges to gain volatility and used unstable anomaly for overloads, and the last engineer mostly used pulse blasts for buffs, two bots and electrocute to spend. I on the other hand used photon pulse for 30 vol, target acquisition for 30 vol, instant bio shells for 30 vol and spent 25 vol per bolt caster to refresh my bioshell. Not all Engineers have bots, some do. Not all engineers were using volatility rising or volatile injection. Seriously, you hurt your own position when you make statements like this one because we can no longer accept that you have any intellect to back up ANY of your claims anymore. You want for us to take you seriously but this is the extent of your power of reasoning??? I'm seriously done with idiots like you. Additionally: How many destruction warlocks in wow don't use immolate, incinerate and conflagrate. | |} ---- Because if there's anything that undermines powers of reasoning, it's angrily lashing out right? And ok you can point our Engineers have some variability, but talk to any Warriors or Medics how much build variety they have. | |} ---- Quite a bit. I know we all pack relentless strikes, but it depends on whether you're looking to CC (which is a LOT more important to us than other classes), whether you want to focus on straightforward damage variety (since our range is so short, it's important), or whether you're going vulnerability. I know raiders are always hashing out theorycrafting looking for an optimal spec, but it's not 100% agreed on how that works. I know I've shifted my LAS a lot from fight to fight, just to optimize. | |} ---- As someone with a level 50 medic and soon to be 50 warrior too, I can say you're still not getting it. If you're going to move from "there's no build diversity" to "well okay but these TWO classes have none" I can say you're never going to be happy with any explanation, ever. Warriors probably have less variation than medics but even then it's not as uniform as you might think. Sure, most warriors use relentless strikes and rampage, that's a given if your build is heavily reliant on spending kinetic energy. (very much because relentless and rampage are so strong for burst) I get some fun out of relentless, breaching strikes, ripsaw, savage strikes and tremor. Whirlwind for getting crits and unloading much of my burst on enemies upon knockdown, get smackdown upgrade to further improve breaching strikes. You do pretty much need relentless strikes for most builds though because most people don't use things like kinetic burst. The problem with warriors and medics isn't that they lack build variety, it's that most people go for the simplest method. It's always easier to go "well this is the one reliable method a lot of other people are doing" (meta). Have you ever tried theorycrafting and just doing anything you think MIGHT be possible? The thing is, your statements earlier have only been indicative of poor intellect or extreme dishonesty. I don't know which one I'd prefer at this point. Perhaps you're just ignorant but wish to seem more knowledgeable? I've been playing Wildstar since beta, there's plenty of variety to play with - particularly if you're trying to specialize for certain roles. I found myself enjoying WoW back in the day. I liked retraining my talents for my druid main in days long past to max him out as much as I could. People that claim that there's only one good way to do something because they're unable to think outside of the box they've built for themselves are a sorry sight. I'm not entirely sure why I've spent this much time speaking on this subject to be honest. Perhaps I just really dislike when people appear to be dishonest, either to others or themselves. | |} ---- The cookiecutter builds are still there. It's not to hard to choose from what's good for pvp or pve. If anything it has dumb down badly within the years. As for each every class has 3 specs in WoW compared to WS? Rogues can't tank, but stalkers can. Mages can't heal, but espers or spell slingers can. Dps is dps no matter how different the spec is so that's practically a dead horse argument there. I'll say WS has more builds than in WoW, but the only downfall about WS builds is that not many skills are efficient with others. Rampage, impale or any moves relevant have decent tiers than others. It's hard to replace them since they deal a great amount of damage or heal. So far the best mmorpg game that has great customizable builds is Archeage. I would say FFXIV ARR as well, but their skills are limited so no free range. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- There's more than one way to play a warrior and get similar DPS. Experiment a bit. | |} ---- Drop down your whiteknight cloak, i reached 1800 on arenas legit, i am currently working on system daemons, AND I'M TELLING YOU THERE ISN'T ANYTHING OUT OF THE FUKING COOKIE CUTTER BUILD THAT CAN WORK, STOP ACTING LIKE A SMARTASS WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW WTF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. | |} ---- You only need to scroll up... | |} ---- ----